MEET THE MIND
MAYA MADERE
IN CONVERSATION WITH LIAM LONSDALE
I truly adore interviewing climbers like Maya Madere.
If my memory serves me correctly, the first time we met in person was in Meiringen, Switzerland at an IFSC Bouldering World Cup. She, a member of Team USA at the time, was competing against her peers, the best athletes in the world at the opening event of the season, I was charged with hosting and emceeing the show. I distinctly remember during our brief encounter that Maya was such an endearing and interesting person to talk to, thoughtful and genuine with her answers, precise with her words.
Maya is part of a stellar line up of climbers that are coming together as part of the KAYA Sessions: The Competitive Mindset panel discussion on Friday Oct 23rd, so I seized the opportunity to chat with her once more before the main event.
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LL: Maya, it’s great to be chatting again today, I know the KAYA community is going to be stoked to learn more about you. First things first, you had quite the scare this summer, let's talk about the accident. I think it’s fair to say that we are lucky to be interviewing you at all today, right?
MM: Hey! Thanks for having me … and, yeah. That was a pretty scary one. What a crazy experience. I was at a particular sport climbing zone in Hood River, Oregon, known for the rock type there which is cracked basalt. It’s really impressive to look at, kind of like the wall has been pieced together like a jigsaw puzzle. There are talon-like features, these shapes of rock that hang down. It’s very cool and actually really similar to climbing on volumes, everything is blocky and compressiony [sic]. You have to use all these weird hand positions and wraps and knee-bars to actually climb anything, the movement is really involved.
On the day, I was climbing one of the routes and ended up falling. I knew something was wrong immediately, and it all happened so fast … I initially thought I had ripped the bolt straight out of the rock … and then it turned out that the entire chunk of rock that the bolt was attached to, had ripped off the wall. And of course, the entire 30-40lb chunk of rock that was connected to the bolt, was also clipped to my rope via my quickdraw and so as I fell, it ziplined down the rope behind me and slammed into my back.
It hit me so hard that it hurt, but I didn’t feel any extreme pain immediately, it was more of a shock than anything. I just hung there on the rope, and the rock was against my back. I didn’t even realise that I’d been cut because I was so disoriented. I lowered to the ground and I remember my back stinging a bit, and so I turned around to my belayer and said “oh man, that hurt, am I bleeding?” and he was like, “erm, Maya, you’re going to need stitches!”
The cliff is known to be pretty chossy, and for whatever reason I had decided not to wear a helmet. When a rock that is that size, and sharp enough on every side to smash your skull open, comes so close to hitting you in the head, it spooks you, you know? It was probably the least traumatic way that the scenario could’ve played out to be honest, but I was definitely happy to walk away alive that day.
LL: And you're ok now?
MM: I ended up with ten stitches and a pretty gnarly scar. I didn’t go back to that crag again while I was there, and I think if I had returned I would've been afraid. That said, I’ve climbed outdoors since and I feel pretty good. I definitely pay closer attention to the condition of bolts and to the rock around them when I’m climbing. Otherwise it hasn’t impacted my mindset. I will be wearing my helmet next time.
LL: And so you’re back in the gym as normal, climbing hard?
MM: Right now I am managing a totally different back injury which kind of sucks. I picked it up earlier this year while windsurfing in Oregon. I’ve had lower back issues for a really long time and did something funky which has meant I have two bulging discs and a form of arthritis. It was time to put a hard stop on bouldering for the time being.
LL: Oh Maya! I’m sorry to hear that. Well, instead of talking about the “now” let’s go back to the beginning. When did you realise that, to quote your Instagram bio, “Climbing is Life”?
A much younger Maya, competing in regional finals back in December 2015.
MM: Ha! Well I haven’t changed my Instagram bio since I made the account when I was 15 years old, so read into that what you want. In seriousness, rock climbing is incredibly important to me … it’s where I have the majority of my ambitions and goals. It's also what I do for fun. It's where my community is. My social circle is centred around climbing. A lot of aspects of my life are deeply involved with climbing.
It sounds kind of corny but I actually remember the first time I walked into a climbing gym. I was 10 years old. I had never been so in awe of a place before in my life. I hadn’t climbed outside so I didn’t have any sense of what real rock climbing was like, I just knew that I really liked what I saw. I remember thinking, “Oh my gosh, this place is the most epic place I have ever been”.
I was so stoked, I instantly had this moment of ‘wanting to be there’, not wanting to leave. I knew that it was somewhere that I was going to find a lot of happiness. I cant say that my ten year old self knew that climbing was going to be my sport for the rest of my life, but I was definitely tuned into knowing that it was something that I was going to really enjoy.
Pretty early on decided that i was just going to be a climber and that was what i wanted to do. I didn’t overthink it. Once I had figured out that I really liked the sport, it occured to be that the next logical step is to try and become the best in the world. So that became my goal … as soon as I started climbing.
And then over the years I realised its not quite that simple …
LL: When you say ‘not that simple’ you did go to a Youth World Championships and do really well, if I remember correctly?
MM: That’s true. I did. That was fun.
LL: Let’s fast forward to present day, your still still studying and managing to balance student life with climbing life?
MM: Correct. I am in my 3rd year. I should graduate in the next couple of years, pandemic logistics pending.
Right now I am living in Salt Lake City, UT, I moved here to be close to the USA Climbing Training Center because I wanted to be able to train, and since school is all online right now I am able to live wherever I want. It’s not easy to find the balance, in all honesty. I need to stay disciplined to train, deciding how much energy to spend on school versus climbing, when to cut myself some slack in training because I had a rough week at school … versus struggling with school because I am exhausted from training. It has definitely taken some getting used to, having two things that I am investing ALL of my energy in.
That said, I think that the volume of climbing that I actually need to do in order to have the most return on my investment in terms of improvement is actually lower than I would like to do … in that way school forces me to rest and means I often don't have time to overtrain like I might find myself doing otherwise … that has been a problem for me in the past.
LL: How do you differentiate your training and your recreational climbing ? What's the split?
MM: It really depends. Right now, I can't boulder so most of my time during the week I train on the campus board, hang board etc. Sometimes I do very specific climbing drills but they’re not projecting or climbing for fun … I consider that to be training, not climbing. I try to get outside at least once a week, if I am lucky twice on the weekend. It’s so important to me, to feel like I am doing some climbing for fun, even if I am in the middle of a training cycle, if I don’t get a few recreational climbing sessions every once in a while then I start to feel disillusioned and it actually impacts my progress.
This injury has meant I have been doing some specific power and strength training and believe it or not, I actually did my FIRST EVER ONE ARMED PULL UP TODAY. It was a big ‘life goals’ type moment for me. I ‘kipped’ like crazy but hopefully some improvement will follow. The injury has been a blessing in disguise becuase it has given me that focus, when otherwise I might have been too tired from comp training.
LL: Right, and so with the injury in mind, and the change in training, are you still training with competitions as an end goal? Or will we be seeing you on some hard outdoor redpoints in the near future?
Maya competing at SBP © Quinn Mason
MM: Competitions are still my primary goal. When the season starts up again that will be my main focus. In the meantime it would be great to send some hard routes outside, but honestly competitions are still where my mind is focussed. I feel like there is less time pressure when it comes to performing outdoors, whereas the window to be really competitive is more limited.
LL: What are your competition goals?
MM: My most immediate and defined goal is to qualify for the Olympics in Paris in 2024. Honestly, it’s a little bit of a stretch for me, especially with the way things stack up in the US. Speaking frankly, I am definitely not lined up to be the next Olympic climber ... whether it be bouldering/sport climbing or both. If they keep it separate (ie not combined with speed) then that's what I am shooting for, and that is what I have in my mind when I am training. Never say never.
Ahead of that, I’m aiming towards re-qualifying for the US National Team to get some more world cups under my belt.
And to answer the second part of your question, it would be nice to send some hard routes outside too … I have a couple of short term projects that i am stoked on in Utah right now, but nothing I am heavily invested in.
LL: I still need to get to Utah to climb, it looks pretty fantastic. Do you have a favorite climbing area?
To add Maya’s 5 favorite boulder problems in Hueco Tanks to your KAYA project list, tap the image.
MM: I will be forever loyal to Hueco Tanks, TX. A lot of people say a lot of bad things about Texas but it’s always going to be home for me. Hueco was where I went on my first ever outdoor climbing trip … and sure, access is a huge pain, obviously, but the rock quality is awesome. I don’t foresee a time when it won’t be special to me. I have so many memories there.
I think that no matter how much you train, no matter how good you are, there is something about being able to flip the switch and get into that competition gear, when you can push your mind and body to be able to do things that you couldn't ordinarily, that is what sets the best apart from the “almost-best”.
I think it’s that element that makes competition at the highest level special and important, and something worth pursuing for me. Knowing that I have to give everything that I have, and that I am capable of that.
LL: Speaking of memories, what would you say has been your BEST climbing day ever.
MM: Oh wow. That’s a tough one. I guess if I have to choose, the one that stands out to me the most has to be the Innsbruck Youth World Championships in 2017. It was my penultimate Youth Worlds’, and I was competing as a first year Junior. I had been travelling and competing all summer and so going into the competition I really didn't expect anything. I showed up to see what might happen and I somehow squeaked into finals in the last spot. Then the finals came and I was doing pretty well. Going into the last boulder of the competition I knew that I had to top it to finish the finals with a good result. The first move was a double clutch dyno to those big Kaiju stalactites, there were a bunch of volumes too. It was a big, committing and compressiony [sic] move, the sort of thing I haven’t been very good at in the past. I ripped off those holds so many times that I was bleeding, not just a little bit. I mean, there was actually blood dripping down my hands. All five tips and both wrists were through. I was packing chalk into the wounds to stem the blood flow, and then just rapid-firing back on to the dyno, over and over.
With 30 seconds on the clock, I somehow stuck the move and managed to claw my way to the top of the boulder. Truly, I don’t think I have ever tried as hard as I did in that moment. Not in my entire life before then, and not since then. I wanted to send that bloc so bad, and I was able to perform. That was the incredible moment for me. I learned something about myself, that I do have another gear, that I can flip a switch and go further. In the past I had a lot of instances where I had choked under the pressure, not being able to perform, I got nervous and made stupid mistakes, when it mattered. Topping that boulder validated all the goals I had set for myself in competition climbing, I realised it was possible, that all the effort and sacrifice was worth it, in that moment, I could see a glimpse of what was possible. So yeah, that day is for sure a contender for my best so far.
LL: I cant argue with that, what an incredible experience, and even more precious that it was such a valuable learning opportunity. OK, let’s take this a little bit deeper, and a little more to the here and now. 2020 has been one hell of a year. Anything and everything seems to have been touched by its events in many different ways, the climbing community isn’t exempt from that. You were one of the thousand climbers that signed The Climber’s Pledge, a promise to do better as a community. In your opinion, what does the climbing community need to do to improve itself?
MM: There has been so much talk about inclusivity and accessibility in the climbing community and I think that it is probably one of the most urgent areas that we must attend to. Whether or not you believe that the lack of diversity in climbing is intentional or systemic, you only have to look at the make up of the community to see that it is clearly very homogenous and white-male dominated, that is an undeniable fact. I think as a collective, climbers have almost always been of the sprit of wanting to be inclusive, and I think in general, people are moving in the right direction, wanting to open it to everyone. I’d say that the vast majority want to make climbing a sport that everyone can do, but we have a long way to go, for sure.
I think the most important thing to do in that area is to listen to the voices in our community that do exist. We should listen to the folks that can speak to these issues on a personal level and represent the demographics that are being excluded.
I think it is especially hard with Covid, events like Color the Crag, which was supposed to happen last weekend; are being postponed or cancelled. It's important that everyone who climbs needs to realise that we have work to do, even if we think we are doing nothing wrong, it is such a valuable community that we all have a responsibility to make it available to everyone regardless of race, gender, identity, anything.
LL: Speaking of Covid … what do you think the future of climbing community looks like now Covid is here?
MM: I think that there is potential for a very good movement to make it safe, and make climbing something that people can still enjoy and share while not compromising anyone's health … but I also think that there is a lot of potential for ignorance, and for people ignoring the fact that it's a real issue. I have seen a lot of that at the local crags, when there have been days that the boulders are overcrowded and nobody is wearing a mask. It seems especially bad in the gyms too. People need to be considerate of each other, pay attention to the issue, and stop treating climbing as something that is separate to the goings on of Covid-19.
I think that it is important to realise that this is kind of our new normal. Climbing can still be everything that we need it to be, in a safe way. That said, there are still aspects of climbing that will never be the same if we have to continue social distancing etc. Car pooling to the crag, sharing lunches, putting the rope in your mouth to clip etc. those elements and more have now been compromised. Now when we arrive at a crag that is busy, instead of thinking, ‘oh hey it’s a party’, now it’s ‘wow, we really shouldn’t be standing so close together … and, hey, why are you blowing on the holds after brushing them?’.
I feel like there is a lot of hostility that starts to develop as a result of the general wariness of human contact that we have had to develop, which sucks, because we are all used to this being such a social sport, especially when you need a spotter or a belayer and you don’t have one in your bubble. It’s harder for sure.
Maya squeezing the juice out of some slopey pinches © Quinn Mason
LL: Speaking about viewing climbing as separate from the realities of the world, when the issue of race was brought up in climbing, I was really surprised that so many people vehemently opposed even just the prospect of discussing diversity problem in climbing … it showed me the climbing community in a differnent light
MM: there is a bit of a paradox when we consider ourselves as a community to be separate or above the issues of society at large, it's almost ironic because in doing that we are being the opposite of what we are proclaiming to be … like “people suck, humanity sucks” is the vibe that many are giving … and suggesting that climbers are better … you are only being complicit in whatever is going on, by exempting yourself from the societal situation. It’s an easy trap to fall into, to cover your ears and just go climb a rock, but I think on the bright side a lot of people are waking up to that fact. I think we are becoming more aware that we can't just be “climbers” and that we have to be human beings. We have to contribute to society, step outside of our mostly white-male dominated homogeneous climbing bubble … not to diss on the climbing community too much, we do have some diversity but we have a really long way to go.
LL: As someone that has been involved in the competition scene for the best part of a decade now, how do we make competition climbing more diverse?
Pumped much? Maya on a rope © Ryan Fulkerson
MM: Good question. Honestly I think it comes down to reducing or removing the barriers to entry. For example, to compete right now in a youth bouldering season, the costs start with a +$100 Competitor Membership. Kids then have to compete in youth local competitions which are often in the region of $70-$100 to enter, you have to do two of those to attend regionals, which are usually somewhere between $50-$100 to register, again not including transport and lodging, that’s followed by a Divisional round which is another hundred dollars, plus airfare, etc etc. None of that is including the fees that come with training as part of a youth team at a climbing gym, which also requires a membership, and entry fees, and the gear required to climb. It goes on. To do a full youth competition season is at least 10 competitions, 5 of those competitions you absolutely have to fly to or spend several days driving cross-country. That’s a lot of time, and a lot of money, and those are simply things that many people do not have. That in my eyes is one of the biggest barriers to entry. So far there hasn’t been a big push to change it, and it requires a lot of momentum to get the ball rolling. Organisations like Climbing for Change are working towards a more equitable system, it’s going to take a lot of work to really shift the way it is right now. USA Climbing does some great work, and the people there are working to improve climbing for its athletes, I would love to see how they can improve the accessibility for more people too.
LL: Maya, I couldn’t agree more. Thanks so much for joining me today! I’m excited for our KAYA Session very soon.
[COVER PHOTO OF MAYA MADERE TAKEN BY KEVIN PARKER]
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Maya Madere is a proud athlete on the tension climbing TEAM. She climbs in Evolv Shoes, and is A fiercely loyal ambassador and supporter of the brand.
maya stays fuelled with Crafted Energy bars, from her home state of texas.
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